FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE ON ITS CONSIDERATION OF RAMSI
Thursday 11 September 2008
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Prayers were said.
Mr. Chairman (Hon Laurie Chan): Honourable Members of the Foreign Relations Committee, Premier for Malaita Province, stakeholders and members of the public. Welcome to today’s’ hearing of the Foreign Relations Committee inquiry into and review of matters relating to the Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands.
Yesterday we heard from seven (7) provincial premiers and the Lord Mayor of the Honiara City, although the Premier for Malaita Province was scheduled to make his submission to the committee yesterday, he was, as I explained, unable to appear. Today the honorable premier is available and willing to testify and for that I welcome and thank him on the committee’s behalf. I hope that yesterday’s proceedings provided members of the public the necessary basic understanding of the nature, functions and operations of a parliamentary committee, particularly this committee. I need not repeat myself in that regard. Instead I will simply sum up the gist of this enquiry for those who might have missed yesterday’s hearings.
This committee, the Foreign Relations Committee continues to undertake its inquiry into and review of the Facilitation of International Notice 2003 referred to it by Parliament in its recent sitting. As I explained yesterday that since the gnosis touches on all aspects of RAMSI, this is effectively a review of RAMSI and its operations, and it continues today.
Again, let me inform our witnesses for today and all other prospective witness that in our hearings the committee will accept any submissions on the country’s participating in RAMSI, the public purpose for which RAMSI is in this country, the RAMSI agreement, and the Facilitation Act that governs it. As such, I will allow submissions and views on all of these matters.
I would also like to advise the witness that you say in these hearings is protected by parliamentary privilege and cannot be later used against in any legal proceedings whatsoever. Because of the strength of this privilege, this committee expects all witnesses to ensure that the answers are truthful and confined to matters relevant to the terms of reference and the questions asked by members. Providing false evidence to the committee is contempt of the committee, which parliament may well act on. Witness should also not reflect or comment unfairly or defame others. The privilege that is provided by parliament to witnesses must be respected and used wisely, and we expect that the witness would testify with interest of the public in mind. Please be reminded that this hearing is being broadcast live by the SIBC, and vide recorded by One News.
We will first hear a 15 minutes presentation from the witness, and after that this committee will ask questions to the witness for up to one hour. Although we may stop early if members have no further questions. May I now ask the witnesses to please state your name and positions for the record?
1st Witness: My name is honorable Richard Irosaea and I am the Premier for Malaita Province.
2nd Witness: My name is Robert Kaua, and I am the Deputy Provincial Secretary for Malaita Province.
Mr Chairman: Thank you Premier and thank you Deputy Provincial Secretary. Premier, do you want to make a presentation to the committee? Please proceed.
Mr Irosaea: First of all, I would like to make an apology for my absence from yesterday’s hearing as I have to attend to other very important matters in the province, and so I have to go back and take care of that before coming back this morning.
In relation to the matter in review, the Malaita Province would like to acknowledge and appreciate the good work that has been done by RAMSI especially in restoring law and order in the country more so Malaita Province and Guadalcanal. One statement I would like to make here is that the people of Malaita Province really appreciate the assistance of the Mission, especially when a lot of villages in the province lived under fear in relation to the absence of law and order in the province. If any people or any province has really felt the brunt of disorder at that time, it was these two big provinces. For that, we appreciate very much the work that RAMSI has done in the country.
Now while Malaita Province appreciates the good work by RAMSI we feel that it is very important that the Solomon Islands Police Force is prepared to take on the responsibilities of security and law and order in the country when RAMSI leaves. In this regard, we also believe that an exit strategy must be laid out by the government for RAMSI to exit but leave law and order and security of Solomon Islands in good hands, in a disciplined and well behaved Police Force. Unfortunately, the problem we have gone through in this country has had some effects on the quality of police work in the country, and this is yet to be improved in the country, especially in the Police Force on the behaviour of some of our officers. We believe that this is very important and we hope RAMSI is addressing this in its training programs.
We also believe that RAMSI is here. It was asked by the national government to come and help us out and therefore as a body that is here working in the country under that request, RAMSI should be running programs that are approved and endorsed by the national government and therefore should not be running parallel to the legitimate government of Solomon Islands. It has been aired or stated before by leaders of Solomon Islands that the sovereignty of Solomon Islands must be appreciated and respected, especially by officers or people working under the Mission.
Also in regards to the law and order in the country, we also would like to see that the local police are trained and well prepared for the job they are supposed to be doing in keeping law and order in this country.
Malaita Province would also like to see a clear statement on the responsibility of the Mission in this country. I must state here that when one mentions RAMSI in this country people normally think of law and order and nothing else. But RAMSI, if the terms of reference of this Mission is to cover other areas of responsibility in this country, it should be stated clearly. If not, we will end up with RAMSI being another NGO. I think that is what should be noted.
Also we would like to appreciate and make a note here that through the Mission, we have had some improvement, especially on the administration of finances in this country. That work has affected Malaita Province, especially in updating of auditing in the province, and that we really appreciate as work well done, and a job done which has also helped Malaita Province. As I said, the work of RAMSI should be stated clearly, especially when RAMSI also comes under the funding of AUSAID. There are some projects in Solomon Islands that are also funded by that organization – AUSAID, and that is the reason why we are asking that RAMSI responsibilities or RAMSI activities must be stated clearly in that regard.
I think that is all I would like to say in relation to this subject of review. Thank you.
Mr Chairman: Thank you, thank you, thank you Premier. Let me start off by asking you a question. You stated that RAMSI needs to make a clear statement about its mandate. What do you understand that mandate to be?
Mr Irosaea: As I have stated, when somebody mentions RAMSI people tend to think of it as just law and order. When the name RAMSI is mentioned in this country, people tend to visualize it as policemen, army personnel and so on. The adage of RAMSI is doing only government officials and people in the provinces know what the adage means, and that is the reason why I said that the government should clearly state other jobs RAMSI is doing in this country because as I said if we say it is just for law and order then people will tend to think that law and order has been restored and so RAMSI should now go back.
Mr Chairman: Premier, thank you for that. Just on other issues. Do you have issues of law and order today as well as lack of economic opportunity in your province? Can you explain?
Mr Irosaea: First of all, since the status of law and order resumed in this country, Malaita Province has been relatively quiet. Although we still have such a thing as the production of locally home brewed beer and other things, which I think is common in Solomon Islands, there are other drug problems like marijuana and things like that. I must say that at the moment those problems still exist in the Province, although not really obvious but we would like especially the production of those things to be non existent, but relatively it is quiet in the Province although we still have normal incidences happening now and again in the communities. But if you asking whether we are complaining, I would say that we are not complaining because things are quite normal at this time in the Province.
Mr Chairman: What about the lack of economic opportunity?
Mr Irosaea: I think it is common knowledge that Malaita Province has the biggest population in Solomon Islands, and it is also common knowledge that our people have been seeking employment opportunities outside. On economic opportunities in the Province itself, Malaita Province is still waiting for its national projects, namely Auluta Oil Palm, Bina and Suava. Unfortunately those projects have been coming for the 15 to 20 years, a few million dollars have been spent on them by governments of the past but nothing has so far materialized from those projects. So in terms of economic opportunities, especially employment opportunities, there is not much of this in the Province, and so we believe that with these projects coming up, should help out in partly addressing the problem of unemployment in the province. What the province really wants to see in relation to these national projects is that the province would like to take a lead in addressing these projects. Since these projects were identified up until now, these projects were administered by the national government provincial administrations in the past and now continued to be sidelined. We are calling only when problems arises from these projects.
Mr Chairman: Premier, you just mentioned one of these bottlenecks because of these big projects not getting underway, are there other issues that are slowing these projects down?
Mr Irosaea: There are other issues but the common issue that people tend to relate Malaita to when it comes to development projects is land issue. But if you ask me, I do not think that is the main constraint in these developments. It is actually putting our money where our mouth is, is the thing that is missing. If we are serious about these projects then give us the money and let us do it. Let the Province take it on. That is what I am saying.
Sending people down there to look at what the problem is and then coming back and talking about the same problems, I do not think that is addressing the problem. I must say that land issue is part of the problem, and I do not think land issue is new to Malaita Province. There are land issues all over Solomon Islands. I think the thing is actually addressing the situation. It is getting there and doing the job in those projects.
Mr Chairman: Just a final question before I put it to the committee. What do you think are the roles and functions of RAMSI?
Mr Irosaea: As I said I do not really know the functions and roles of RAMSI. I do not really know the full extent of RAMSI’s terms of reference apart from coming in to help us solve our law and order problem, which I think has been done very successfully. That is the reason why I said that if RAMSI is to be involved in other areas of development in this country, then it must be stated clearly so that even provinces would request that sort of assistance under whatever sector that RAMSI is here to help us out on.
Mr Chairman: So basically you want RAMSI to be more into development aspects as well as law and order?
Mr Irosaea: What I am saying is that if the terms of reference that RAMSI is here under covers other sectors like involving in economic development or in addressing other issues in Solomon Islands then it should be made known so that we in the provinces can say “look RAMSI we have this under this sector, and since it is under your TOR, can you help us address the issues we have here”.
Mr Chairman: Thank you premier.
Hon Wale: May be trying to flash it out a little bit more. In doing that, I want to ask why would RAMSI be better at that as opposed to say the provincial government and its public service or the central government and the provincial government and the public service. Why should RAMSI be better at moving into, say economic development projects as opposed to the governments running those? Secondly, if that should become part of RAMSI’s mandate, what would be the role of the provincial government and the central governments with regards to in effect broadening the RAMSI mandate to include economic development and projects?
Mr Irosaea: I think I must make one thing clear here. I am not saying that RAMSI should involve in economic development. What I am saying is that if the mandate that is given to RAMSI covers economic development then we should also know. I am not even sure whether economic development is one of the mandates under RAMSI’s terms of reference at the moment. What I am saying is that if there any other activities or sectors that RAMSI is involve in at the moment, then may be the provinces should know.
Mr Chairman: Good answer.
Hon Wale: Would you like it to be involved in economic development?
Mr Irosaea: When we talk about provinces, I must make one statement here too that the provinces should be at the forefront of development in this country. The provinces on the other hand are the poorest equipped organizations in this country to address development. That is a fact in this country. We look after 85% or 90% of people in this country but we are helpless. We are even as helpless as the people themselves in the provinces. That is one thing that should be addressed first, and that is how to equip the provinces to address the development needs of this country. If RAMSI can help out in this area, then why not? If RAMSI has the expertise to help then it should help us out in developing our provinces. Because the way we are going, we have been going this way for the last 30 years and there is nothing in this country that we can show for the last 30 years, apart from Honiara that has improved.
I am sorry to say this, but we have failed our people in the provinces. I am looking after 170,000 people, but do you know what my budget is. It is only $7million. Between my MPs, they are spending more than $14million. Unfortunately, that is the same with every province. I am not criticizing anyone here but this is the system we are talking about. The system we have inherited from the past. It is a legacy that we have to change to address the real development issues of this country. Thank you.
Hon Wale: Premier, somewhere in your speech you mentioned that you appreciate the restoration of law and order by RAMSI, which all of us cannot deny that it has done a good work in that area. Article 2 of the Agreement spells out the roles and functions of RAMSI, and that is the definition of general purpose. In your thinking and observation of the Province, are those functions and roles fulfilled by RAMSI and if fulfilled what level or percentage do you grade them?
Mr Irosaea: Again when I talk about RAMSI’s work in the provinces, I will always refer to the law and order activities that RAMSI is doing in the Province. The real situation in the Province is this. The RAMSI officers are the only officers that are mobile in the provinces. In other words they have the logistical support. The local police officers, sometimes in our case are stuck with two run down hiluxes that break down every second day. But what I am saying is that the RAMSI officers in the province have now taken the back stage in police work and the local police officers are now running the scene while every now and again if there is a problem coming up then RAMSI officers are involved.
To answer your question, I think the restoration of law and order from 2003 upwards has been done. But that is the reason why I said the local police officers must be trained and equipped to carry on with the law and order in this country so that when RAMSI exits they can take it on and make a good job of it. At the moment they are not equipped as far as I can see.
Hon Wale: I would like to take you back to your earlier comment, which you now have also just touched on, an exit strategy, what do you see are some key reference points in such an exit strategy? What would you like to see happen and to what extent do you want to see some achievements on those broad reference points, broad goals, so that you have comfort that yes, when we get to that stage on these particular areas sectors or issues then we can assess or we can gage whether or not RAMSI should be exiting.
Mr. Irosaea: The reason why I said an exit strategy should be laid out or established for RAMSI is because again, I relate RAMSI to the law and order issue and police work. If we are talking about RAMSI being here just to address the law and order problem, then obviously the guiding achievements should be how well our Police are prepared to take on the work of maintaining law and order in this country.
If we talk about RAMSI doing other things then obviously there should be other indicators beside our local Police being able to handle the situation themselves. But the reason why I keep referring to an exit strategy is actually to prepare us as a country to stand on our own to address whatever situations we may face.
Hon. Tosika: Premier, you mentioned earlier on that this time RAMSI is at the back seat and SIPF is at the front. For our people in Malaita and your province, what level of confidence do they have on the Solomon Islands Police in comparison to RAMSI?
Hon. Irosaea: In fact the situation in Malaita is a little bit different in the sense that we don’t have any Resident Magistrate, but you can see the Court and the Police working together. That means our people should have confidence in law and order.
What is happening in the Province at the moment is that the local police normally attend to whatever crimes or lawless deed happening in the province or in the community. You would hardly see any RAMSI officer attending to crimes unless on very serious cases.
But for me to tell you what level of confidence now exists in the community in relation to our local police, I cannot really tell you that. I will give you some examples, the community leaders sometimes report to the Police criminal incidences that occur in their communities and normally Police do not follow them up, and the reason why communities are sometimes disgruntled is because they say we reported the case but no one goes to court or being fined for it. That is the reason why I said that confidence in the Police usually comes when law penalizes someone who commits the crime. But now we only see the face of the Magistrate in Auki after every two or three months. But I must also say that that issue is now being addressed and we hope within the next 12 months we should have a resident magistrate.
Hon Boyers: Premier, how do your people feel or how do they think about RAMSI personnel carrying firearms, or wearing firearms in public?
Mr. Irosaea: In our situation last year during the celebrations we have respectfully asked the leaders of RAMSI to just leave their arms away from the public. Our people do not want arms to be carried around. We also know that carrying arms in relation to the army personnel is like their uniforms, and we do appreciate that. But last year and this year we did ask the commanders or the people who were there to just leave their guns in the trucks or vehicles if they have them, and we have very good response from RAMSI as well. They respected our request and everything went on well.
Hon. Soalaoi: Premier, I must thank you for your statement and I heard you said about RAMSI running programs parallel to the SIG. In order to realign the respective roles of RAMSI and SIG there is currently work on a partnership framework. Has your Province been consulted on that partnership framework? And if so, what would you want to be included in that partnership framework?
Mr. Irosaea: Can you repeat the question again, please?
Hon. Soalaoi: What I was saying is that there is fear and concern amongst Solomon Islanders and also we as we leaders that RAMSI is running some of its programs parallel to SIG, and there is work on a partnership framework aiming to realign those things we see as running parallel. That partnership framework is being worked on right now as we are talking. I would like to know whether your province has been consulted on that partnership framework, and if so and if that comes into place what do you want to see in that framework?
Mr. Irosaea: Yes, there have been some programs run by RAMSI in the Province, especially with the young people but we have yet to really understand the extent of that framework you are talking about.
The reason why we said that RAMSI should not be running a parallel government to the present government of Solomon Islands is that what we are really saying is if RAMSI is here to help us out then whatever activities they get involved in should be part and parcel of what the government is trying to address in running or governing this country or in trying to develop this country. I don’t know whether that answers your question honorable.
Hon. Soalaoi: Thank you very much Premier. May be some of the questions we are asking you on are things which are yet to reach you, and so I understand that. But in respond to that concern of RAMSI running parallel, the government and RAMSI are working in one partnership framework that should realign their responsibilities so that what we are saying is that RAMSI should only do what the government endorses. So there is a partnership framework being worked on. I guess you will be consulted later on.
The other question, Mr Premier is with regards to privileges and immunities of RAMSI personnel. I think there is one case in point very recently when this issue comes under question when one RAMSI officer was involved in an accident, and we were asking question whether he can be charged under our laws in here or not. The issue here is their privileges and immunities. What is the understanding of your province regarding these two issues? Do the people understand the privileges and immunities of RAMSI personnel, and if they know do you think they are necessary or should they have immunities or not?
Mr. Irosaea: I think the issue of immunity or privileges for the intervention force is common throughout the world wherever they are. There are some privileges expected for their officers and I think everybody is being wise on hindsight on this issue. When the Facilitation Act was put to Parliament I think Members of Parliament at that time should have looked into that. But in the case where we now have it here in Solomon Islands where a RAMSI officer during his own time or after hours decided to have a good time and then eventually ended up in an accident, I think that is something that even the privileges under that Facilitation Act should not cover. But obviously if somebody tries to capture a criminal by shooting him, and a stray bullet kills anyone, we should understand the situation too that it was not meant to kill that somebody. This is our understanding on the privileges.
If somebody who comes under the Mission decides to break Solomon Islands law at his own time and not whilst performing the duty he is here to do then obviously the local people think that he must be prosecuted under our laws. No laws should shut him or save him from Solomon Islands law. In other words, we are saying that the privileges these officers have under the Facilitating Act should be common sense. Anything outside should be judged under our laws.
Hon. Boyers: Thank you very much for that Premier. The other question I would like to ask as a supplementary is that many occasions the Ma’asina Forum has claimed to represent the people of Malaita. What is your view on the Ma’asina Forum as Premier of the Provincial Government of Malaita?
Mr. Irosaea: I think I once explained this issue over the radio that Ma’asina Forum is a registered organization formed or established by Malaitans, and as such was seen as just another organization that represents ordinary people, just like the transparency international and other organizations. Due to that status it can speak on behalf Malaitans on any issues that it wants, and we respect that. It can also criticize both national and provincial governments too when speaking on issues. But when it comes to making decisions for Malaita people it is the elected leaders that must make the decision, and that is the Assembly Members at the provincial level and the national representatives. I think even our people understand that.
There are times when it speaks on issues that are outside that they should not be talking about and we have already explained that too on the media. We told the Forum that it should not talk on issues it is not mandated to speak on. But as a registered organization it can talk, it has the freedom to talk on any issues affecting Malaitans but the final decision lies on people with the mandate, and that is the elected leaders.
Hon. Boyers: Earlier on you mentioned wanting to take greater leadership on issues in your province, the issue with RAMSI and its roles, law and order and also helping to set the platform for economic recovery, would you like to see your province have a more direct line of partnership with RAMSI in relation to development in Malaita Province even though your line of direct association is through the provincial government ministry. This comes back to parallel, and we have been talking about a parallel government. Would you like to see a closer relationship on issues in relation to Malaita development issues, capacity issues and governance issues with RAMSI?
Mr. Irosaea: I think our understanding of RAMSI is that RAMSI is here on the request of the National Government and as such it is implementing the policies the national government has put in place for law and order, may be development or may be improvement of public administration, and as such since we are agents of the national government, obviously if RAMSI is allowed to do that by the national government then obviously we feel that we can also have access to that kind of expertise or assistance that comes through RAMSI as an organization. But I think what we are saying here is that the RAMSI is here and its mandate is taken from the national government and not the provinces and that means they have given the mandate on our behalf as well.
Mr Chairman: Premier, have you seen this document called Proposed Framework Phase II – RAMSI Assistance Mission Agreement between the Solomon Islands Government and RAMSI?
Mr. Irosaea: No, I am seeing it now but not before.
Mr Chairman: This is a proposed partnership framework designed by the National Government as well as RAMSI. This question goes to all Provincial Premiers and Government, would you like to have a greater input in what has been put in this report?
Mr. Irosaea: Yes, we have to look through it and see what we can do to improve it if that is what you are saying.
Mr Chairman: Absolutely.
Hon. Kengava: Honourable Premier, I think earlier on in your statement at the beginning you stated something on the need for RAMSI to have a clear mandate or terms of reference or otherwise it would be seen as another non-government organization. Can you further explain, what do you mean by that statement that RAMSI could be seen as another non-government?
Mr. Irosaea: I think to answer that question I have to explain our views, especially the views of Malaita province on NGOs. NGOs are people who come in and if they pay a courtesy visit in the Premier’s Office and then they do their own thing in the province, as long as they are working with some people in the community they just go ahead and do it. In other words, when these assistances are given down to the provinces, these assistances must be purposeful and must be sustainable. A lot of NGOs just come in, do what they want to do in whatever sector and as soon as maybe the money runs out they go back and stay in Honiara or stay in their overseas offices until the next assignment comes and they come back and you see their faces again in the provinces. We don’t want that with RAMSI, do we? We would like RAMSI to have a purpose and that purpose must be achieved and when it is achieved, it must be sustainable. It is not good asking for help every time.
Hon. Kengava: Thank you Premier. That leads me to ask you a supplementary question or very much similar in relation to that. The review we are doing now gives us an opportunity to improve on what would be the new roles of RAMSI, if say we give them another five years or three years or whatever it is. I think this partnership framework that is shown to you now is on that road to try and look at what would be the new working relationship between the National Government and RAMSI, and you mentioned otherwise they might be seen as another NGO.
Would you be in a position to mention to the committee if you were to participate to improve or contribute to the framework, what are t he new roles or areas of duties or terms of reference would you like to see RAMSI to be involved in so that it can be broadened so as not to become like NGOs but more developmental or whatever it is? Thank you.
Mr. Irosaea: Let us talk about the situation in the provinces, and I say this about my province. In the province, as I have already stated, the provinces are at the forefront of development in this country, and at the moment they are poorly equipped. For example, the provinces don’t have any effective revenue section in the province. This is where the provinces might need some expertise on. Every one of us just sit down there expecting service grants to come from the national government on monthly basis, but we should organize our revenue sections in the provinces to be a bit more effective. What sort of taxes can we collect in the provinces? This is what we believe is missing, and especially missing on Malaita. In other words, the tax basis in provinces is non-existent, and this is are areas where expertise might come in to look at equipping or staffing of the treasury section or division in the provinces. A treasurer is put there and that becomes an account section. This is why I think it is not really effective in running provincial governments because that is where the weakness is.
At the moment provinces don’t have an effective administration. A PS and a Premier are put there, and in our case 15 ministries and you expect the PS to run all those ministries and the government pays executive members executive salaries to live in the villages. These are areas where expertise should be made use of if there is manpower available to us through RAMSI or such organization.
I can tell you that provinces are poorly staffed and we must make sure it is properly staffed. I don’t know how we are going to run the states if we are to go into states. If we are going to run the states as we are running the provinces now then God help Solomon Islands.
Hon Ghiro: Premier, we all know that RAMSI’s presence here has been five years now. What are some of the successes and shortfalls you have identified during these five years in your province?
Mr. Irosaea: I think in answering that question I will talk as an ordinary Solomon Islander and not as a Premier because my tenure started only last year.
What I would like to state, as I’ve already stated is that RAMSI success is actually restoring law and order in this country making us feel a bit secure. Obviously, because of that security and that confidence we have investors coming in now to invest in the country. I think that is due to that confidence - the restoration of law and order and confidence in the country.
I do not really believe in the economic growth we have been having because those of us in the provinces don’t feel any economic growth, and that is why I think the 8% economic growth or 7% you’ve been saying is just for Honiara and not for the provinces. I think RAMSI is very successful in law.
If we specifically state what RAMSI is here to do then we are also in a position to judge and take account of their successes and maybe their failures. The reason why we keep on coming back to law and order is because that is exactly what we know they are here to do.
Mr Chairman: Premier, yesterday the Guadalcanal Premier stated his disappointment in relation to the recent arrest of two elderly couples from his Province in relation to a fugitive, which resulted in the arrest of the parents. Do you feel there should be improvement in relation to cultural values or issues in relation to cultural settings?
I am bringing this up because we used to have the Peace Council set up in the country, which was sort of used as a buffer in embracing communities into participating. Do you feel this is a necessity in Malaita or the processes that are happening within RSIP and RAMSI are accepted in relation to arrests as the Guadalcanal Premier mentioned yesterday?
Mr Irosaea: When RAMSI came into the country it arrested a lot of Malaitans, but I think the Malaitans appreciate that that is what RAMSI is here to do. Of course, there are some incidences too on Malaita that may be RAMSI should not have done what it did but what I can say in relation to that is that I sometimes feel for RAMSI too because when it comes to customs, traditions and things like that they are looking for titles in that regard. Sometimes they have to preserve law and order. I am not saying that holding somebody’s parents instead of that him is something that should be entertained in this country but it comes back to us, the communities that if we want law and order we must also play our part. I believe that is what the communities must take up the responsibilities that must be taken on by the communities. If we cooperate, I don’t think RAMSI would go to the extent of holding somebody’s parents instead of him. And we all know that if a person breaks the law, the law must deal with him. But what I am saying is that afterall RAMSI are only human beings. I think that is all I can say in relation to that question.
Hon Tosika: Premier, I know you understand that the ethnic tension happened because a lot of our people were living unnecessarily in places they don’t have rights to, and so the problem was between Guadalcanalese and Malaitan people.
Now that we are going towards reconciliation, and reconciliation according to our culture involves paying of compensation and things like that. The government has just passed the TRC Bill to take onboard issues relating to the tension. In your view, Mr Premier, do you think RAMSI should fully support reconciliation so that the problem of the ethnic tension is resolved and the normalcy and confidence of both parties – Malaita and Guadalcanal Provinces are at peace so that RAMSI can exit from the country? If RAMSI is to be involved, in what ways do you think it should come in the reconciliation process we are thinking of right now?
Mr Irosaea: I think what I am going to say in relation to that question is first of all the tension, we believe happened because Guadalcanal people were not happy with the government for not meeting their demands and because of that they chased people of Malaita from Guadalcanal so that it is painful to the national government. That is what we believe to the reason for the ethnic tension. Obviously, it was when they started chasing Malaitans away that some of the boys formed the MEF. This is all history, which all of us are aware of. But I think reconciliation in this country must come out and must have a purpose. We should not just reconcile because we had a fight with Guadalcanal. Every leader in this country and every people in this country must have one aim, and if the aim is to unite Solomon Islands then we reconcile because reconciliation cannot bind us together but the urge and desire to form a nation to become a nation and unite and go forward as a nation can enable us to have a true and meaningful reconciliation. But if we reconcile because the national government has a reconciliation program to spend money on then I believe even though RAMSI might come in and help us out with these reconciliations, it would not affect us. We must have a purpose for reconciliation.
I am not saying that I do not believe in reconciliation but we have to have an aim to reconcile, and reconciliation should be a forward looking process, not reconcile and you come back and stay in Guadalcanal. If our people from Guadalcanal were saying that nobody should be staying here then respect them but we must become one so that we can go forward as a united nation. But if we reconcile and people think that because they reconcile and therefore they should come back to the lands they bought from the people of Guadalcanal then that would be wrong. I think we should be looking at a process that is forward looking and must be for Solomon Islands.
Mr Chairman: Well done, Premier. We have one more question.
Hon Wale: Premier, there were claims that some guns are still around, not collected yet, and those guns are in Malaita. And also one of our relatives who is wanted for murder but has absconded is still in the bush, and so obviously it is a law and order issue and also an issue that we could measure the performance of RAMSI and the confidence of our local police whether they are capable of handling this issue. I am sure you have been thinking about this issue for a long time and you might have some views on, which would be good if we can hear your views on this case.
Mr Irosaea: On the issue of guns, I don’t know how many guns are still out there, may be as what the Whiteman said that time will heal, in other words they will rust and therefore would be of no use to anyone. But if we seek them out and think that leave the guns to rust. But in relation to guns only those hiding guns out there would know that they have them. At the moment, I don’t think that even the Police know. May be if any of the Police know that their relatives are hiding guns, then that would be between them. But the administration in Malaita has not discussed this issue. In other words, since the retrieval of guns nobody has used any guns to threaten anybody or even fired warning shots like what used to happen before.
Hon Wale: Premier, may be I should remind you that a couple of shots were fired in villages up North Malaita just subsequent to the retrieval and destruction of guns, and the culprits were not even apprehended until today and none of those guns that were fired were retrieved. That leads me to this question.
Mr Irosaea: As I said the retrieval of guns can be made possible only with those people hiding those guns away. I don’t know what they want those guns for. In regards to militants that are in the bush and there are quite a few, but we have not discussed this issue even with the Police since the new administration in Malaita came into office. In other words, we don’t have any plans as yet because we have yet to discuss this with the PPC. But I believe if we work cooperatively – the communities, the Police and RAMSI we would end up becoming a better community or Province at the end. That is all I can say in relation to that question.
Mr Chairman: Thank you Premier, but I beg your indulgence for just one brief and short question from my committee.
Hon Soalaoi: Honorable Premier, I heard you mention the word ‘exit strategy’. Yesterday some Premiers were able to say at least five to eight years more for RAMSI to be here. Now when you talk about an exit strategy what would you say about it or how many more years are you looking at?
Mr Irosaea: That is the beauty of having an exit strategy. The beauty about it is that we don’t time it but we should have indicators in place and then say that when these and these indicators are in place RAMSI can move out. But if we put a time limit to it then when five years or eight years is up and even if they don’t achieve what they are here to do but they leave.
What I am saying is that we should have an exit strategy in place, especially the indicators or the achievements. Once this is done then we are in a position to say confidently that RAMSI can have the final party and off it goes. I mean an exit strategy can be 20 years, 30 years but if they are here to do a job and to establish whatever we want in this country then let them do it. Only then can we say RAMSI is fit to leave. I am talking about an exit strategy with indicators that these are things that must b achieved before they can leave. May be they should be timed but if you really think about timing it, they would not achieve what we want.
Mr Chairman: Thank you Premier, for participating in these hearings, you have been very enlightening.
Hearing adjourned