NATIONAL PARLIAMENT OF
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE TRANSCRIPT
(Inquiry into the Immigration Division, Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
Commerce and Tourism)
(Uncorrected Version subject to
changes upon revision)
Opening Prayers were said by David Kusilifu
Chairman: Once again members
and officials, welcome back to the second days hearing. This morning will look into the special
report into the affairs of the Immigration Division of the Ministry of Foreign
Affairs. We are here this morning with
Jerry, who is the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and he
may have some officials with him this morning.
Apologies again from the Leader of the Opposition who
is still ill. The other member is
on his way and he should be joining us shortly.
What
we have here before us is a report that was produced by the Audit
Department. This report was produced
last year and the Department of Immigration would have ample time to look at
the report. There are fifty one (51)
recommendations in this report and the issues that were raised in this report
are quite serious. To look at the
report on page 4 onwards in front of all of you; the key findings in this
report are on issues of passports where there has been a critical breakdown in
passport management and loss of stolen documentation, poor record keeping and
so on, and it looks into citizenship, also looks into permits, clearances,
deportation, visas and the loss in government revenue.
These are the issues that are raised in the
special audit report which needs to be seriously looked into by the Department
of Foreign Affairs, Immigration Division.
There is indeed a substantial loss of revenue to the tune of $4.9
million which is uncollected. On
passport there has been alleged fraudulent issue in passports issued. There is an inadequate control over issues
and other functions of the division.
The
illegal granting of citizenship which amount to about 65% of the cases and 90%
of these cases are Asians, illegal immigrants working in
I
will now give this opportunity to the Permanent Secretary and his officials to
lead us in this deliberation.
Permanent Secretary: Thank
you Chairman, and members of your committee and
secretary for the opportunity to look at the recommendations of this special
audit report. The Immigration Division
as you know is now part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, External Trade and
Immigration. It is a new baby that my
Ministry has just adopted, and in the course of the discussions, I will also
ask my Director of Immigration share with us or to respond to some of the
queries that the committee may have in this report. But we have taken the recommendations of the
report very seriously and some of the measures that we have looked at although
at this stage we do not have a national plan to say but we do have our incorporate
plan which drives to address some of the recommendations therein.
We
are also working on a number of specific measures in response to the various
recommendations. Of course as the report
says, a lot of the recommendations hinge heavily on the part on the need for
this system of the division to be fully computerized. At the moment it is basically manual. But there have been improvements especially
as of last year the office has been renovated.
The structure within the office at least compared to what we had in the
past, there is some improvement in terms of access for security for that
matter. But what needs to be done as yet
is the need to computerize the division so that proper records can be kept as
well as proper administration and management system.
Chair,
with those few remarks I thank you again for this opportunity, and if I may
pass on this corporate plan
Chairman: Thank you
Permanent Secretary. I just want maybe
you or the Director of Immigration. Have
you actually looked at the special audit report, especially the
recommendations?
Permanent Secretary: Yes, I
have read through the report and Im also sure the Director has also looked
through the report. Because I think the
Director did respond to these audit reports in terms of some strategic directions
and priorities straight after this report he wrote to the Auditor giving
certain priority directions and strategies on areas that the division can take.
Chairman: And has there been
a written submission to the Audit Department?
Is there any written submissions?
Deputy Auditor General: At this stage Mr Chairman, we had the five bullet
. on page of the report were
responses from the Director of Immigration on 13th September, the
only comments we received back from the Department.
Chairman: So those five bullet
points were the responses by the Department in response to this special audit
report. Now there are 51 recommendations
here.
Deputy Auditor General: Yes,
Mr Chairman. We did ask for a more
. response but at this stage not been able to see that actual
plan that has b been requested.
Chairman: What is the
progress by the Department in looking at those recommendations apart from those
five bullet points?
Permanent Secretary: Thank you Chair, as I have said at the moment
we do not have an actual plan as yet but there have been a number of steps that
we have undertaken. I will ask the
Director to elaborate on those.
Director: Chairman, after the
audit was sort of conducted, audit officers are in contact with my division
The officers from the Auditor
Generals Office with
directions and priorities and those
directions and
priorities should take care of most of the recommendations that are put in the
audit report
. However, what has been
done so far resulting from the findings in the recommendations on the audit
report by way of submission to the budget section
.. These are submissions for an I.T. system
to be established connecting the headquarters to the
For
passports I think that will be very, very useful because currently we have
introduced a
..system as in the past and security of
records
.. and access to information on
. My view is the submission for an I.T. network
to be established within the immigration headquarters is of paramount.
While
we are on the passports, now we also make sure that legal administrative
requirements are strictly complied with in issuing passports which applies to
..and
also passports. And furthermore the
issue of devolution of powers to
.. sign endorsement
of passports has to be done according to the laws, and those delegated
functions are now ....thus the Director or the Deputy could only sign or
endorse the passports. That is for
passports.
On
permits, there are
been processed but
not yet fully implemented. What it means
here is administrative barriers in respect of delays or been unable to process visitors
permits on time and also to avoid more
taxes
we come across situations which were highlighted in the audit
report. We are now using
.letters to
act as check and balance mechanism to avoid
entry notes. These are some of the processes done with
permits.
When
it comes to visa an amendment has been prepared in respect of the Immigration
Act Cap 60 to accommodate the 1998 Visa Regulation which at moment has been
drafted but not yet been implemented.
The reason is there are forcible legal complications which will arise
should the 1998 Visa Regulation is enforced.
There were also some thoughts
.to enable the smooth operation of the
1998 Visa Regulation. And also for
purpose of clearance fees there are some administrative arrangements in place
so that ship agents are able to pay up fees because what was experienced in the
past is ship agents pay fees in bulk and not on individual basis.
On
deportation, the effect of such importance of Cap.60
..very effective that
is the result of consistencies from ministerial and divisional levels also
these constraints which are normally in place, others manpower, equipment, logistic,
budget and things like that.
When
it comes to revenue amendments are also in place also in respect of fee
schedules on permit fees and passport fees.
It has reasonably increased from what we had in the past. I understand that
.in 2003. Thank you Chairman.
Riumana: Just a question and
before I ask my question I wish to thank the Permanent Secretary and his
official for the chance to come before the committee. The question is monitoring of migrants into
Chairman: Maybe just before
the Director responds to that, for the benefit of members if you look at page 6
of the audit report it talks about firms and it also raises the issues or
the
concerns that were raised in this
report. There are 51 recommendations in
this report and since the department has not prepared a written submission and
maybe just to assist the committee if we look at the key findings of the report
and maybe ask the Permanent Secretary or the Director of Immigration to sort of
maybe highlight the immediate actions the division has taken.
Now
getting back to your point on issue of permits, what the honourable member has
raised is a serious concern here. What
is really the requirement under law in the Immigration Act for people to really
come in
Permanent Secretary: Thank you
Chair, and thank you honourable for your very important questions. Yes, that is one of the major functions of the
Immigration Division to control the flow of people in and out of the
country. A number of the issues raised
are technical and legal in nature so I will ask my Director to respond to those
if you would allow him to.
Chairman: Yes.
Director: Chairman, in
response to one of the issues raised in the Immigration Act of the relevant
regulations, being able to speak pidgin is not a legal requirement. Entries of persons into the country by way of
of
.. Secondly in responding to the
issue of functions of control on monitoring, responsible officer is the
Director in terms of administration and management. The operational part of monitoring are done
by officers who are posted out in the provinces who man the different port
entries in the eastern sector and western sector and also out here. Those operational matters are dealt with by
officers assigned to perform those functions at these following entry points.
The
system we have as alluded to earlier is manual unlike
other systems in other countries which are computerized. It is quite difficult in terms of effective
and efficient monitoring of persons pouring in the country when there is need.
In
terms of what software should be applicable
the I.T network with
computerized system, it should be something very simple just to collect
..information on a timely basis to assist in business and authority
to make some decisions.
For
example if the computerized network connecting the headquarters to the airport
is in place as expected or as proposed then there will be a system at the
airport that when a person enters the country his name and other information
are data into the system. So if the
person is only for a month in the country then as long as one or two weeks before
time lapse there is an indication in the system that this person is about to
overstay or this person has already overstayed.
So it is to let us know that we are looking at this person at this
address so that he can leave the country.
Now
with the current system we have not only with monitoring but also security on
the information we have, this is quite difficult. We have been liaising with IT personnel in
Finance on how or which type of software is applicable and convenient. It is a difficult area where even myself
..computing is something
.
We put recommendations to them and they will look at what is fit for our
needs. Thank you Chairman.
Riumana: Thank you Chairman, just to elaborate further
on that point of monitoring and coordinating migrants into the country which is
very important. I am very happy that you
have raised a very good answer. By now I
guess you should know the kind of software you should be using because we need
to know whether those people who will to handle that software are trained and
maintenance of that software, cost of that software and all these technical
areas. Otherwise there is no point using
Excel, Microsoft Word to be used to monitor the migrants but with the software
you are mentioning maybe it could help.
Do you have in mind the software you are going to use, and the cost and
maintenance and so forth? Thank you.
Director: Mr Chairman, I
think the I.T. project has been in a project format and the actual project
proposal was looked at by the I.T. section, and there has been some general
costing as to how much it should cost, and also training forms part of the
package of the project. I.T. officers
will train us how to use the software.
Also the budget as I have seen in the proposed project is about $1.5
million.
Hon Koli: Thank you Chairman
and officials. I would like to raise a
point as to what Honourable Riumana has highlighted about people entering into
the country who are given working permits.
Some of them go beyond their scope of going in line to what they should
be doing in the country. For me, I have
clashed with one of the foreigners who entered into my constituency without my
consent so in terms of monitoring and coordination if you have that software
that deals with people who enter the country they must comply with the work
permits. The foreigner who has intruded
into my constituency without my knowledge is a concern. I must highlight this very point that people
must not go beyond this scope when entering into the country without
employment.
Director: Mr Chairman, I
will give you an example. If any logging
companies within your constituency
.the law does not say that permission has
to be granted by the Minister before persons can work at the respective logging
companies
Similarly when a person
applies for a residence permit it can be acquired with work permit and he is at
liberty to move anywhere in the country to perform work under the direction of
his own.
Hon Koli: I would like to
raise further comments. This guy went
and conducted meetings in my constituency and some of the issues he mentioned
challenged my leadership in my constituency, and this is a concern to me. This is not in line with his working permit
that is why it is a concern to me.
Director: Mr Chairman,
probably if the activities or the actions of that particular foreigner contravened
any other laws probably he will be dealt with under other justices but not in
business.
Chairman: You earlier on
mentioned that people are coming in under visitors permit. Now in
Permanent Secretary: Thank
you Chairman. The point raised by the
honourable is a very valid one, as well as the point you have reiterated. I think part of the problem here hinges on
..and that is the function of the Commissioner of Labour who
And as you said that is a prerequisite to getting
a residence permit. So the Commissioner
of Labour as I have said works on work permits.
Hon Severino: Mr Chairman, I
should thank the Immigration Department
report with a lot of
recommendations put in place to be looked into and maybe adopted if possible
and put some action plans into it. But I
failed to see that there has never been any
..about the physical security
of officers of immigration. What I mean
is, is the office conducive of saving up for the working environment of the
office because that is one contributing factor that maybe hinges the flow of
work by officers and it seems to be a lot of
.in such cases. There seems to
be discrepancies every now and then because there is no control. One other question that I would like to ask
here is that is there any control mechanism put in place and how often is there
a stock take of what has happened? To
me, I think concerns about passport issues if there has been any mechanism of
stock control over a period of time that can be identified whether it should be
done manually or whether it be programmed into
computers, it should put some light to such incidences.
Director: The
. hinges on
the issue of
.records. With
passports, consignments are received from manufacturers and they are kept at
the safe room in the Central Bank and consignment information are transmitted to us on the number of passports
on the type of passports delivered. So
whenever officials from immigration went to the Central Bank to collect a
number of passports normally information is cross checked so that we know what
are the correct number of passports and the their types in the strong room, and
the amount of passports taken for processing in our office and we produce
annual reports on the type of passports we process. This includes ordinary passports and also diplomatic
passports. We do have some records on
passports that are manufactured transmitted to us and also the amount of
passports processed by other officers and pending passports.
Hon Riumana: Chairman, just
a general question on the issue of passports.
Do you have an agent outside of the country apart from the embassies issuing
passports?
Director: Passport issue
comes under the
act, which regulates the issuing of national passports. I understand that some of the missions as far
as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for example the mission in
Permanent Secretary: Chair,
just an additional comment on the point that the honourable member of the
committee raised in terms of the working environment in the Immigration Division. I think there has been substantial
improvement in the office following its renovation last year compared to what
it was over the years. And now for
example each unit has a computer, two or three years ago there was none and the
structure is such that it provides not only a conducive working environment but
also in terms of security of access to documents in safe keeping. A substantial improvement compared to what it
was for the last few years.
Hon Riumana: Just an issue
of monitoring and coordination it is very important to have a network or a link
with respective agencies like Labour Department, Civil Aviation, Investment
Board and other authorities. Do you have
in place that network because you cannot do the monitoring yourself alone?
Director: Chairman, while we
are going to have the computerized system in place connecting those other
enforcement agencies there is a organizing aid called the
.common law
enforcement agency groups which is
comprised of customs, quarantine, immigrations, police, central bank, finance personnel. And the aim and objective of the
is to
collect and share valuable information with other law enforcement agencies, and
that has been operating for sometime.
The connection we have is through written documents for meetings
..I.T connection. I see that very
useful and important because there is information which we do not know but
those are agencies may assist to and we work on some achievements for launching
operations in logging camps in Isabel and Western Province, and also we are
planning other activities in the near future.
But what I am trying to put here is there is an organization...... enforcement
group where we meet and discuss issues and should any of those agencies have
access to information available to another agency then they will share it with
us. That is important because we do not
have enough resources and so the issue of monitoring is contrast.
While
we are on that, when it comes to enforcement we also liaise with other agencies
like the Interpol where we find certain information or documents where there
are original copies with the issue of
.or monitoring the organizations in
place that will deal with this.
Chairman: Members, like I
have said earlier on, in the absence of a written submission on the
recommendations I think we will just focus our attention on pages 4 and 9 and
raise questions for the officials to clarify the issues there. But I think we will soon need a written
submission by the department on the 51 recommendations. But for the purpose of this deliberations we
will just look at page 4 to 9 of this report and then ask questions to the
officials so that will guide us in our deliberation this morning.
Now
we are still on permits on page 6. Do
you want to ask anything on that page on issue of permits?
Hon Riumana: On deportation.
What qualifies a person to be deported?
Director: A person can only
be deported by virtue of the Immigration Act Cap 60. This means that he has been residing
illegally in the country and then therefore he has been declared an
undesirable immigrant and therefore he is going to be deported. And when deported he is to be
..
Hon Riumana: So even if a
person changes his business interest like investor coming here to set up a fisheries
cannery or so forth then eventually they set up a logging company, is this
still okay?
Director: Probably that will
be dealt with properly by the Investment Division
in the country.
Chairman: The report did highlight delay deportation action
by the enforcement unit. What action is
the division doing to rectify that weakness?
There are already a number of deportations but which the division has
failed to enforce those orders. What is
the division doing?
Director: Thank you
Chairman. That has been difficulties in
the past.
Chairman: In the past and
now?
Director: What we actually
put in place rectifies some of the difficulties there. One is, we are
embarking on increasing manpower. That
is making new recruitments for officers to work in the enforcement compliance
unit, and another issue we are looking at is the general budget. If we are to deport someone we have to have
money. We must strictly not to deport
someone alone out of the country but also if someone is deported he has to be escorted
by two securities and just imagine the possibilities of take from here to some
places like South Africa and the transit costs and the two officers to return
after dropping off the undesirable immigrant.
And one of the things that we are also looking at is to further revise
the laws to make the process much, much shorter and not forgetting the issue of
Chairman: Now on the issue
of insufficient funding on deportation what is the division doing to
rectify.
Permanent Secretary: Thank
you Chairman, before I come to that just to reiterate on a couple of points the
Director said in terms of massive delays in terms of deportation. For example as you said we are recruiting
about five officers are waiting for PSC endorsement for their appointments, not
only for the enforcement unit but also the other units within the division. The other fact that is contributing to the
delay in the past is infrastrcuture of equipment or vehicle. We rely or we depend on the police vehicle
for enforcement for example. So request
is now before the PS of Works for a double hilux to assist the enforcement unit
in terms of enforcement and compliance.
For funding, there is provision in the budget
as you know there is always not enough money but we do have some provisions in
the budget. And as alluded to, when you
deport somebody you are not sending that person alone, he is usually
accompanied by securities, police officers which the government has to also pay
for them in airfares and transit costs.
So these are some of the factors that surround the issue of
deportation. Thank you.
Chairman: Any question from
members on the issue of deportation?
Hon Riumana: On page 8 it is
registered, proscribed or prescribed? What has the Division done about this because
it has not been updated? Page 8,
registered, proscribed or prescribed and restricted not updating?
Director: Chairman,
that was the position in 2005 when it was conducted.
Hon Riumana: So now it has been
updated?
Director: That is correct.
Chairman: Do you still experience
forced visa entry permit letters on visas?
Director: Chairman, after
the administrative was in place that is the induction of the rectification
letter
..experienced.
Hon Riumana: Do you have a
system in place to monitor the issue of visa?
Director: Chairman, at the
moment we have a simple single network in our office. Whenever a visitor comes in we data the information in our computer and also information
in respect of the period that he is permitted to be in the country and whenever
he leaves we collect the cards and we also data information so we do have a simple
system in place.
Hon Riumana: Do you have any
cases in the past where any person overstayed the visa?
Director: We have
experienced a number of cases where foreigners overstayed
.
Hon Riumana: So you need to
improve the monitoring system.
Director: That is why there
has been submission and request for the upgrading of the system that would be
efficient and effective so that it can be able to provide to immigration authority
to complete timely information.
Hon Riumana: So when you are
talking about this I.T does it include this visa issue?
Director: That is
correct. It applies to the visa,
visitors permit records, it applies to residency permit records, and it applies
to overstayers, that is
.. and
also compliance
Hon Riumana: Chairman, do
you have enough resources and capacity to do the monitoring?
Director: I think that issue
is not only faced by immigration but other government offices as well. We have issues with infrastructure, we have
issues with logistics, we have issues with budget and we also have issues with manpower. So those constraints contributed to the
difficulties that the division faces.
But from what we have now we are trying to be functional, efficient and
effective as much as possible.
Hon Riumana: So what have
you done to remedy such situation in the absence of inadequate logistic and
capacity? What have you done?
Permanent Secretary: First
of all we are going to recruit five immigration officers as part of the
building capacity manpower. As I have
said we are just basically waiting for the PSCs appointments and
approvals. They have gone through the
interview process and the reports are now with the Public Service Division for PSC
to deliberate on.
In
terms of logistics, as I have said also transport for example has been a
constraint. There is a request been
submitted to the Works Department for a vehicle to assist us in terms of
enforcement and compliance. The Director may wish to compliment those?
Director: Chairman, initiatives have been taken to
address those issues and at the moment we have achieved some of them, others
are yet to be accomplished but it is in our programme and we are working
forward to achieving this.
Chairman: You raised quite
an important point there about the register, where you are going to use I.T.
computerized system. Do you have a
proper back up for that system or somebody to analyze that system? What is your fall back?
Director: Chairman, in a
system like that we have standby source, server, to contain information for
security reasons. We may have those
stationed at Finance or Central Bank where all information is safe and if
something goes wrong with our system we have the information available and securely
kept.
Chairman: In the report,
Director, on this issue of non compliance, your Department in the period from
2000 to November 2004 lost or foregone $4.8 million because of simple non
compliance. What is the Department doing
to rectify or have you already in the process?
Director: Chairman, I think
that is an incident some year back before the
was conducted. These persons
entered on visitors permit and started working expecting that their residence
permits would be finalized but then requirements were not met and things like so
resident permits were not possible that is why they stayed illegally in the
country. What has been in place now is
if a person is on a visitors permit and he is in the country to undertake a job
without returning they should pay some penalty fees,
..
fees. It is
something like $7000 to $12,000.
Chairman: Is that
entertained or are there provisions in law?
Director: Chairman,
that is the current
..in the country. The position in the past is a person must be
outside of the country before a residence permit can be considered. Now the position is otherwise. The person can be on a visitors permit in the
country while his residence permit is considered but he has to pay
. fee. The fee is
equivalent to sending that person out of the country and come back again. Instead of spending money on airfare and
hotels elsewhere money is
..
Chairman: So what you are
really saying here, Director is that people can come in here under visitors
permit and while they are in
Director: That is the
.. I understand that in the previous
government there is a policy on that so that is why the recommendations are
structured.
Chairman: Have you
experienced loss or stolen passport documents as has been the case in the past?
Director: No Mr Chairman.
Hon Koli: In terms of
obtaining passports. If someone has to
descend from
Director: Chairman, although
a foreigner has two passports that is not an issue
our immigration is
concerned. We are only concern if a
person applies for a citizenship in the country which is under another
ministry. He has to surrender his
citizenship status because
citizenship
.. If one has to be a citizen in
Hon Koli: What about if the
person is a citizen of
Director: If that person is
a citizen of
Permanent Secretary: We do
not have do all citizenship.
Chairman: Are you thinking
of reviewing the law?
Director: Thank you
Chairman, I think do all citizenship has some good
things. That is if a national is married
to an Australian or to a national of another country the children can
benefit from other privileges from another country. Similarly they can take others in the country
when one of the parents is from
Chairman: On page 5 on the
issue of citizenship if you look at the top bullet points, illegal granting of
citizenship is a 65% of the application sample has acquired ten years of
requirement under section 7 subsection 2 of the Citizenship Act. What is really the requirement? Ten years is the requirement. But in here it has been alleged that 65% of
the application sample does not really require ten year requirement under the
act.
Permanent Secretary: Sir, I
agree with you, except that this is a matter that is in the purview of Home
Affairs Citizenship Act and not Immigration.
Chairman: We have to summon
the Permanent Secretary of Home Affairs on some of these issues. That is a good point there.
Hon Riumana: Maybe Mr
Chairman it is very important for the Ministry of Immigration and Ministry of
Home Affairs to have a close collaboration and network as I have said in my
previous statement. Your division cannot
monitor it alone. You need other
agencies and other authorities to effectively coordinate all this work. Right now it is Immigration, Ministry of
Foreign Affairs granting citizenship. We
need to have a close working partnership with the Ministry of Home Affairs and
Immigration cannot work in isolation after all we are in the same government.
Chairman: Members and
officials, I believe that we should summon the Permanent Secretary of Home
Affairs on any of the findings on this special report so that they can explain
to the committee.
Now
on the issue on permits we have the Department of Labour for work permits and
for citizenship it is the Home Affairs Department. I think the Permanent Secretary needs to
respond to some of those. If this report
is directed to the Department of Immigration Division then who will be
providing those responses or have you covered them in these recommendations?
Auditor General: Chair, why
the Audit covered the Citizenship Act is primarily because
..on the issue of citizenship in
Chairman: That is important
but since it falls out of the purview of Immigration then somebody has to make
a respond to those recommendations.
Because if the Immigration Division does not make responses, in this
case the Department of Home Affairs will have to make a respond on those
weaknesses because this has been an issue that has been popping up in the
streets, offices, on the floor of Parliament and I think somebody is going to
be held accountable or explain to the public why that has been the case because
the illegal granting of citizenship of about 65% of those applicants for
example have not made a ten year requirement so somebody has to explain.
Auditor General: Chairman, I
take note of the point raised. I guess
apart from the issue of citizenship which rightly comes under the purview of
Home Affairs, the other issues on permits were covered because they come under the
Department of Commerce. So I guess if
the Committee should wish that the Permanent Secretary responsible be called to
answer for the issues raised here then I would suggest that is the most
appropriate action but I guess the difficulty here would be I am not sure the
Permanent Secretary is aware of these issues.
Chairman: Well I am simply
raising it here members and officials because you have raised that in the
report as part of the key findings of this special audit report. Because if you have not raised it in the
beginning we would have haste it but rather it has appeared in the report and
then if it is not part of the recommendations then I would not be really
concern about it. But now that it is
part of the key findings of this special audit report then there has to be a
corresponding respond to that part of the report but that is how I see it.
Deputy Auditor General: I
guess Mr Chairman, when we raised this and make a recommendation the
responsible department or ministry would normally then explain the jurisdiction
issue and it is up to us then to negotiate with these processes placed to liaise
between the two departments because they are both involved in this particular
point. So in the absence of the
..response this issue has not been fully heard to allow us to complete the
result so the way forward is to get that responsible department for them to
tell us their impediment to realise their ministry
and the way forward is to talk to them this way around resulting
.. But the point is it still sits there in front
of its own.
Chairman: Any comments on that members? Do you
want the Department of Homes Affairs to make response to that through the
Department of Immigration?
Permanent Secretary: Thank
you chair, I think the way forward is, since the report is on immigration of
course there are some linkages here, as part of our efforts in terms of making
the recommendations my office will liaise with the Permanent Secretary of Home
Affairs telling that if he or if she could respond to the recommendations that
come under citizenship, especially those that
.Home Affairs. Those that appear under the purview of Immigration,
Ministry of Home Affairs will deal with those. I will liaise with my colleagues
first.
Chairman: Any other comments
on clearances and revenues?
Hon Niuiasi: Mr Chairman, we
have been collecting a lot of revenues from all these activities
..so do you
have several places that collect revenues on the
?
Director: Are you referring
to the
..in the provinces?
Hon Niuiasi: Yes, and not only that as well as you are responsible for some
of these major revenue collection activities within the ministry of
immigration, and maybe labour and commerce and so forth. How well are they collecting revenues until
today
.. so that maybe easy
or to they have several places to collect revenues for example some of the fees
that are paid at the airport. Some
people are paying for the passports at the Ministry of Commerce, I am not too sure
but what are the measures so far to improve this revenue collection in the
ministry?
Director of Immigration: Mr
Chairman, at the moment all fees are paid at the Treasury, Ministry of Finance
and only the receipts are attached to applications and lodged at our office. Upon receipt of these fee receipts then we
will process. There are agencies for
example PNG where they collect some fees and then what they do is they pay by cheque to the Solomon Islands Government and those cheques
are forwarded straight to the treasury in finance. They also collect some fees from
Chairman: Director, are you
absolutely sure that there are no overstayers or illegal people that are living
in the country? Because this would enable you to look at the system we have in
the division because unless you have a good system you will not be able to
track those people that are illegally staying.
Director: Chairman, we were
looking into two categories: overstayers under
visitors permit and overstayers under residence
permit. In my assessment and information
I obtained some 20% of those who come under visitors permit but then they live
straight away so there is something more minimal under the residence
permit. We have dealt with some already
..
Chairman: Now Permanent
Secretary and Director, where would you think you will put the formal written
response to the recommendations raised in the report?
Permanent Secretary: Thank
you Chair. To be honest with you I was
only told this morning that the communication was sent requiring action plan on
the recommendations, and I only saw a letter to appear before this committee on
such date. But I take it seriously that
we are going to work on this and we will respond to the sets of recommendations
that you have there and that concludes liaising closely with my colleague from
Home Affairs with regards to those recommendations that come
unde the citizenship issue. Certainly we will work towards fulfilling
that requirement that have a lot of importance to the recommendations and
findings of the audit report and we are committed to do our best to address
those issues
to strengthening the Immigration Division under our
Department. Thank you .
Chairman: Any final comments
from members or final last questions on the report?
Hon Niuiasi: Just one question. Sometimes we the politicians put submissions
in the last minutes for passports and certain issues which need ample time then
you are putting pressure to deal with those issues. How do you handle such
issues in your office because that will also be a problem to have that need to
be done have for all those things like the Microsoft problems? We do not have time for those things.
Director: Actually the time
frame for passport processing is two weeks.
You can submit your passport now and in two weeks after you can have
them. There are cases where certain
urgent submissions are transmitted through my office. What I normally do is I look at the case
because there are certain travelings or meetings
overseas which are quite short notices so I will look in to it and try and see
if it is genuine then put some instructions for those diplomatic passports to
be renewed or issued based on the information I have as to the urgency on the
notice of the matter. But if I do not
see the urgency I will allow it to go through the normal process.
Hon Koli: Key findings on
passports about lost and stolen documents.
How would you locate all these lost and stolen documents within the
Immigration Division? Is there any
mechanism in place to
.these key findings?
Director: I think that is the
sole purpose why recommendations are in file for the purpose of security on
records. When I took office in 2004 as a
result of those missing information in which one of my officers was suspended.
He was a passport officer, and until now the matter is with the prosecution
cases
.. I cannot see how practical I
am going to get back the lost register again.
That might appear
..
.. that is why there has been recommendations in the audit
report to provide avoidance for such happenings. Thank you.
Hon Riumana: In terms of
capacity building and institutional strengthening do you think you need
assistance in your office?
Director: I think that is a
very important comment. Not necessarily
with the staff but it is a priority in immigration for long term
trainings. I will send officers for
.. trainings in the universities and also they attend short
term courses outside. There are also
essence where personnel is sent into the country to train officers as a whole
on immigration matters, also how to deal with issues that may arise. And in terms of assistance at the moment
need technical assistance from outside especially in terms of training and
skills on know how on certain equipments.
It is a need for the division to upgrade itself because immigration
matters are international issues and we have to be some where around other
countries. It is important that there
are some opportunities around to assess the immigration capacity building
.
Chairman: Director,
according to your corporate plan, one of your key activities is to review the
immigration act, the passport act and the deportation act? Now what do you mean by these reviews? Does that mean that you are planning to make
some amendments to the acts?
Director: Thank you
Chairman, that is correct. Not
necessarily to the act but also to take current regulations or subsequently
.in place. That also includes reviewing
or amending the schedules of the act in terms of fees just to cope with what is
happening now.
Chairman: And what is the progress
so far?
Director: The Immigration
Act has been revised. Strictly to
accommodate the 1998 Regulations ....transmitted through the Attorney Generals
Office for the drafting purposes in the drafting unit. And with the passport there is also an amendment
proposed strictly because at the moment the passports issued by Immigrations
are renewable so it caters for those practices currently in place. And also for the deportation there has been a
recent amendment in 1998, 2003 but then in terms of the processors working on
it they want something more practically.
Hon Riumana: Thank you
Chairman. According to your corporate
plan the I.T. system on the computerized network would be around January to
September 2007, 2008 and 2009. Now from
now until 2007 what mechanism are you going to put in place to monitor these
immediate needs?
Director: As I have said that
a project
..I.T projection submitted and also last year the PS and myself submitted a proposal for
. unfortunately
it does not reflect in the current budget.
But there are initiatives
..towards the
.. but
probably it will be submitted later on again for another budget in the
supplementary budget.
Chairman: Have you actually
started with the computerized network?
Director: While we have
computers in place now we do not have it connected to each other or even to the
airport. So when the system is in place
that will form part of the process. The
project will take care of connecting the network, software and training and all
these other associated aspects of the roles.
Chairman: Any further
comments from members?
Deputy Auditor General: Mr Chairman before we get the action plan what is the
progress?
Chairman: Do you want to put
a time length for that? Will leave that to the Audit Department.
Auditor General: Well I
guess when we issued the report it should be the normal 28 days but perhaps
because it involves two ministries now we will try and coordinate that. In
. A normal 28 days like before would
be still appropriate as of today.
Chairman: If you look at the
front cover of this report, the special audit report, it was produced on
Auditor General: That is
when it was reproduced for Parliament but the report that was issued to the management
was much earlier than that.
Chairman: So your 28 days
requirement would have lapsed some four to five months ago.
Deputy Auditor General: That
would be a year ago.
Chairman: Okay, a year
ago. I think it is important from the
view of the committee because of the issues raised and the key findings raised
certain major weaknesses in the administrative procedures or maybe the system
in the division, the committee would suggest that the department take onboard
seriously the key findings raised on whatever the weaknesses are and make
responses to the recommendations raised and then the audit department will keep
monitoring the division on the progress of those recommendations and that will
be submitted to Parliament. Any final comments from the department?
Permanent Secretary: Just to
thank the auditors office for the special report on immigration. I think this has been long over due for a
number of years
..ministry to address some of the difficulties or problems
that we have experienced in that division.
I have taken onboard the need for us to make our submissions in response
to the various recommendations that apply to the report. We will do our best to comply within that 28
days notice. Thank
you, chair.
Chairman: Well unless anybody
has any final comments here, I would like to on behalf of the members thank the
Office of the Auditor General for a job well done like what the Permanent
Secretary has said. We havent had these
kinds of reports for a very long time, and as part of this Parliamentary
Strengthening process and the whole issues with strengthening, good governance,
transparency and accountability in our pubic system, it is through these
special reports that we make that check and balance in our government
operations. As I have said, members and
officials, we would be looking forward to your responses to the findings of
this special audit report and will leave that to the Office of the Auditor
General to liaise and monitor within your department on the progress of that reponse.
As
I have said, unless we have other
. matters the committee will come back here at
Sitting suspended for lunch break