NATIONAL PARLIAMENT OF
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE TRANSCRIPT
(Inquiry into the Land Registration procedures and Kukum Subdivision,
Department of Lands and Survey, Ministry of Agriculture and Lands)
24 May 2007
(Uncorrected Version – subject to
changes upon revision)
Chairman:
Let’s begin this afternoon session. I wish to apologise
for being late due to other work commitment.
However, before we proceed on to this proceeding as the acting Chairman
of the PAC committee I would like to warmly welcome and thank the PS and senior
officials of the Ministry of Lands and Survey for appearing before the
committee this afternoon. The Public
Accounts Committee functions to review and examine public expenditure as part
of the oversight functions of the Parliament. The Auditor General has tabled eight
in Parliament reports in relation to expenditure that particular government
departments. This afternoon we will be enquiring into the Special Audit Report
into the affairs of the Lands, Registration procedures and Kukum subdivision
within the Department of Lands and Survey (Ministry of Agriculture and Lands) and
before the committee commenced its questioning, I would like to invite the PS
or the Ministry to make an opening statement to the committee.
PS:
Thank you honourable Chairman.
I’m pleased and obliged to be able to avail my team from the Ministry of
Lands and Survey to this PAC hearing the Special Audit Report into the Lands
and Administration Procedures and the Kukum subdivision within the Ministry of Lands
and Survey.
Mr Chairman we hope to basically be provided responses in
addressing 37 recommendations of the audit report. I would like to note here that our presentation
is actually contained in more detail with the action plan we made available in
the committee. Our intention is to
provide responses in attempting to rectify in improving the situations as pointed
out by the audit report. We do not
intend to try to defend the actions of the ministry as allegated
in the content of your audit report but rather report and actions are being
taken or are intended to be taken to address these discrepancies and
recommendations put forward in the report.
Mr Chairman we
actually welcome the report and its recommendations in the sense that it has
provided a check point for the ministry in enabling us to pause and re-look at
the performance of the ministry in terms of its functions and its services and in
line with government policies, statements and objectives. We basically accept the fact that certain
things have gone wrong with the administration of land allocation procedures
and in particular the case that is represented before us. What is important here is to rectify the
situation with the implications for future cases. We will endeavor to answer questions with the
view for improvement.
Mr Chairman, may I now introduce my team and my senior
officers within the Ministry of Lands and Survey. I probably ask them to introduce themselves.
Introduction of Senior Officers.
Tione Bugotu - Permanent
Secretary
Eric
Gorapava - Under Secretary
Joseph
Pinita - Commissioner of Lands
Harry
Waitara - Director
Physical Planning
Haelo Pelu - Deputy
Register of Titles
Jackson
Vaekota - Surveyor General
PS:
Thank you Chairman I’m not sure how you would want to the proceedings to
go on but we would be prepared to answer questions …..
Chairman: Thank you PS and officials. Before we go into further in deliberating
this report if any official wish to make any clarification they may do so otherwise
I suggest we go page by page into this Action Plan. What is your opinion? If not then we start from page 1. Any comments from the
Committee?
AG:
Chair if I could say something for the purposes of record I guess it
would be ….. that the PS clarifies the use of the word
“draft” in the action plan. Does that mean it is still on a draft stage or can
the committee construe this as this is the action plan?
PS:
Thank you Chairman. Sorry I think that is an oversight. It supposed to be final and is no longer a
draft. I apologize for that.
Chairman: This is clear? Any more comment?
Hon: Fono: Mr Chairman, I
would like to make sure if the Town & Country Planning Board (T&CPB) comes
under Lands or under Honiara Town Council.
PS:
Thank you honourable Chair yes that is the point I was going to raise
earlier on. The T&CPB comes under the Honiara City Council therefore a
number of recommendations have been put forward as part of audit report refers
to the functions and responsibilities of the ….Ministry of Lands and to make
further recommendations to the T&CPB or to incorporate certain measures…..
Hon. Fono: Mr Chairman, is the Ministry has any representation in the Board
as to how close the work because a lot of these areas it is the T&CPB has
the Legislative Powers.
PS:
Thank you Chairman, yes we do have a representation on the Board as established.and is the Director of the Physical Planning within
the Ministry of Lands and Survey however, we also have the existence of the
Board and the appointment to the Board is actually done by the Ministry of
Lands so the Minister of Lands actually determines of opposition of the Board.
Hon. Koli: Mr Chairman, in
line with the Town & Country Planning Board and your Ministry I’m just
considering G- Province. Is G-Province also
included in the Lunga area within the
PS:
The Guadalcanal Province is actually has their own board but then the
composition of the T&CP Board is more or less discretion of the Ministry of
Lands and this has been one of the problems with the establishing of and
previous ministers have decided to withhold the actual functioning of the Board
with the view to perhaps decide they would like to sit in the Board. To answer your question …..
Chairman: Ok if no comments on page 1. I’ve seen the comments are based on recommendations
on pages 1, 2 & 3 on page 1 then let’s move onto page 2 recommendations 4,
5 and 6. Any comments? If not
let us move to page 3 recommendations 7 and 8 and part of 6. Can the PS inform the committee about the status
of the Kukum land?
PS:
Thank you Chair I probably be asking my officials to assist on
this. The status of the Kukum land is as
it is reported in the audit…… This response will try and address issues raised in
the audit report a lot of which requires certain improvement and clarification
and this is why we would like to consult the Attorney General’s office.
Hon.
Fono: Chairman, in the event that
some of the actions that were done by officers in your department that is not
straight on which is open for prosecution what action has the government taken
so far whether those officers have been suspended or terminated. And are they
liable for any prosecution?
PS:
Thank you honourable Chair, so far nothing has been done. The officers involved have either left the ministry
or had been transferred to other ministries however the ministry would need to
carry out its own internal investigations to actually identify which officers were
involved theb based on recommendation 2. We will be referring to …..
Hon. Koli: Chairman, what formula do you derive from before
you can send Valuers to value that particular piece
of land?
PS: Thank you Chair. This is a technical question so I shall refer
you to the Undersecretary.
Eric:
Thank you Chair. I think what
normally happens here before valuers assess a particular
property he looks at the location basically and then determines what approach
to take in relation to sales that have taken place. In our situation which is
what happens in Kukum where you do not have a say to make comparison what we
normally do is to apply hypothetical development method sometimes it refers to
as the yes, hypothetical ….. method which you actually look at it as a property
assessing what developments can take place on that particular area and then
come up with the value of the land and part of the assessment then adopt that in
applying what rent to use in assessing the land rent and the premium so
basically that is the administration of what approach to take. And that is the approach we take in assessing
the fees to pay in Kukum Subdivsion.
Chairman: In terms of land rentals is it updated?
Eric:
When we assess the rents what normally happens is we give you what we
think is our opinion on the land rent and land rents will take 20 years for revision
and our revision in rural land is 22 years.
What normally happens is we do revise those rents after 20 years. There were also issues raised regarding whether
we should shorten the period of revision to may be 7 years and that issue is taken up with the
current ministry’s revision of the Land and Titles Act so we ‘re trying to
shorten the period from 20 to 7 years.
But yes we do have data base of all the rents what rent for people to
pay. If they have arrears we do have
notices to be sent out to them and also to do the revision of all rentals. Yes,
we have that in the ministry just what actions to take when the property is up
for rental revisions. These properties
at Kukum subdivisions are not yet out for rental revisions.
Hon. Fono: Mr Chairman, is the
land at Kukum go through the public tender system? Do they go through public tender before they
are allocated? I know it happened some years back.
PS:
The answer is, no.
Hon. Fono: So are the assessment of the valuations of the
land were done by the government valuer? Are there mechanisms to check whether the
value given is competitive?
Eric:
Yes, in a tender process it will be more competitive and in a direct
allocation scenario it is not competitive.
And you know we were trying to sort of well the Commissioner was trying
to sort of may be give fees that are affordable because a lot of the Solomon
Islanders do have interests in the Kukum Subdivisions so although maybe the
fees do appear as subsidized fees, which is normally what happens is normal
practice is more subsidized we could have allowed for an open market sort of
value where it reflects but it can be done through that tender process but in direct
allocation as it is as it was, no.
Chairman: Yes, PS and officials I think it would be better
for a point of interest to know what other criteria and procedures in
allocating lands to a developer and what other factors are to determine the
developer because we have our own local people who can develop equivalent to any
foreign investors.
PS:
Thank you Chair. Before I invite
the officials to respond to that in detail I think it is interesting to note
that we have the system in place at the moment which is direct allocation as opposed
in previous years which was public tender.
The situation here is that in the past there was a fund which was called
the Site Development Fund. This fund was
put in place to enable the Commissioner of Lands to be able to carry out. He would be allocated funds from this
particular fund to carry out tender process including site preparation and so
forth. That fund has since been taken back to Finance back to the consolidated
funds and because of that this new system of direct allocations has come to
existence what we actually do at the moment is we have consulted MOF with the
view to requesting government to allow us to take it back the site development
fund. This will be a special account that
will be controlled both by the Commissioner of Lands and the Permanent
Secretary as ……but it will make sure the Commissioner of Lands has allocated
the fund to prepare sites and then put it out in public tender.
In the absence
of that this is where we have direct allocation. To answer your question Mr
Chair the criteria which Land is allocated to the present system I will ask the
officers to …….
Com. Lands: Thank you Chair I want to make mention of criteria. Actually on direct allocations at that time
we would assume that there were no proper criteria put in place and I will just
have to say that the Commissioner too….. and know how on
the processes whereby the department is put together. That one did not allow
the Commissioner to make a decision to allocate land. We know quite a number of Solomon Islanders
some have been allocated land some none at all this kind of politicing
kind decisions/ideas not to allow the
Commissioner to make decisions to allocate land ….that is of course we know
site development plan fund to set criteria for public tender is not there. Not only that but not …. ….to allow such situations to come into place.
Chairman: Ok.
Let us move on to page 4. Part of recommendation 8, 9 & 10.
Hon. Fono: Chairman, explanation of Commissioner is well
understood this has been done during the tension years however if we look
currently at the developments happening between Lungga
and
PS: Thank you Chair. I will ask the Commissioner
to respond to that.
C/Ls:
May be come back again to the issue of Site Development Fund as well having
not given that funding yet this sort of practice had been happening for
sometime now and office as I would assume continues to blame themselves but I
would rather like to see the budget put in place so that we put through this
idea and be more in control.
Hon.
Fono: Chairman, my
understanding is the Site Development Fund for the development of these sites
for the developers to move in. Now right
from the start it has to be allocated out whether direct allocation going
through the tender process. Reactivating the tender process is given more
transparent and a measure of good government practice that government must approve
it. Why was not a public tender for
these very important prime sites not only to Kukum but even to what is
happening now at
Chairman: Now, PS and officials in addition to what the
Leader of Opposition has said, in Honiara we have a lot of logistics is readily
available in terms of electricity like Kukum water is there electricity is
there road is there so in terms of site development may not that
expensive. So the question comes back why
there were no tender. Is the Ministry going to uphold the tender process in the
future or are you going to continue to do this direct allocation which is not
fair to the people of
PS:
Thank you Mr Chair. It is quite clear. The ministry is definitely going to
change. We have to apply the tender
process. I think the direct allocation
system that has previously been applied is the reason why things have got out
of hand. The discretion as to who is
allocated certain plots of land is totally then the hands of the Commissioner and
this is where the problem is but we definitely intend going back to the public tender
process.
Chairman: Is the Ministry has a time frame to go back
to this tender system.
PS:
Yes, we are looking at working towards it by the end of this year and
early 2008.
Chairman: Any comment Member for
Hon. Koli: In terms of Land registration and allocation. Is there any investigation been carried out in
respect of specific cases being reported.
Is there any new investigation carried out?
PS:
Thank you honorable Chair. To my
knowledge no, not to the extent that people are actually being charged at this
stage or this is the first case that has
come up with the Kukum land subdivison but with this
audit report it actually brings to surface a lot of other cases.
Chair:
Page 5 recommendation 11, 12 and 13. No comments? Page 6 recommendations 14, 15, 16 and 17.
Hon. Koli: Chairman.
What is DPP here indicated?
PS:
Thank you Chair. DPP stands for the
Director of Physical Planning within the Ministry of Lands.
PS:
Sorry, I think we should have clarified that earlier honourable Chair.
Hon. Fono: This area or this practice of certain Solomon
Islanders would like to speculate on land from the government. They obtain it and resell it even without
developing it. Is that ok or is there restrictions
on that. If there is no more restrictions
can an amendment be made and bring it into Parliament so that we do not
speculate on land because land is allocated to those who have funds to develop.
That practice is not only here in
PS:
Thank you honourable Chair. Yes, there is a provision in place. This is exactly what happens in this case at Kukum
Land Subdivision case. What is actually
in place is a time frame period of five years and this relates to transfer of
land. Although it is in place there has been and this is part of the recommendation
2 to the Ministry to enforce some sort of check or monitoring. I think the
problem lies the fact there has been no check and therefore this is being allowed
to be practiced although the law says, don’t, is not that accepted but it happens
and nothing has been done about it. This
is one of the recommendations that we will address to try and work on
particularly in relation to this Kukum land case issue. Perhaps if other officers who
wish to comment they may do so.
Chairman: Yes, PS and officials while
the ministry is trying to change the system from direct allocation into tendering
process. Does the Ministry have any moratorium
on direct allocation to stop people from rushing into last minute allocation of
land?
US:
Thank you. We are going to look
at the issue of backlog because we have a lot of applications at the moment with
us we were thinking of putting a moratorium at what time but we have to decide
on a particular time we put December 2007 we will have to address this first and
then trying. We can do that in a form of
a circular in a form of a notice but we also depend on public to take note of that
there is a moratorium so we should start to stop asking for land or something like
that although we expect them to always come places like the bank people always
come everyday but if you can put out something like that also using this land
new program instead of talking to the people and public and that will try to
put that in place. I think we will put out
in the media and let the people know about the moratorium. We are trying to be courteous to the people
as well we do not try to stop them but we must try to put some control measures
and one of them is this moratorium. We
will certainly do that.
C/Lands: Chairman, just continue with control measures
report that we also put in place standard of procedures we also try to address how
we can try and control them address it while we put in place a moratorium on
the tender process.
Chairman: Page 7 Recommendation 18, 19 & 20. Any comments? PS and officials recommendation 18. The last bulletin point:
“The Commissioner should seek further legal advice in relation for possible for
future of these lots with instruments that have not been duly stamped and
therefore not adequately executed the dead line is 31st May which is
only few weeks away what is the progress?
PS:
Thank you Chairman……….
Chairman: Will be on time.
Hon.
Fono: This is in relation to a
non-collecting of stamp duties?
C/Lands: I think there are certain parcels which were
not duly stamped. We will need to seek the AG’s advice regarding that and then
in terms of forfeiture because we sort of trying to be very mindful and be very
careful as to whether we should apply that or so we get there first then we can
sort of apply forfeiture but certainly there were some parcels which were not
duly stamped also maybe need the assistance from the Chief Collector from the
Inland Revenue to come in to address the issue as well together with us.
Hon. Fono: Chairman, what happens to lands the Commissioner
might be taken back for future plan? Is
it re-alocated or put out for tender?
C/Lands: We will put it out for public tender and then
we have allocated and transfer it…
Hon. Koli: what is the actual period for the developer
to develop that land?
Hon. Fono: Chairman, on the other hand I learnt of
others who have been waiting for their Titles. It takes a number of years to
release their Titles as you know they need their titles in order to seek
finance from the banks. Sometimes it is Lands
that delays awarding of their Titles although fees are being paid. Why takes so long if there is improved
efficiency in the system.
Pelo: Thank you Chairman, yes we actually have a backlog
in the land registry due to shortage of staff we still accept people who find
it hard to get their title to come in and to tell us that they want their
titles to be given priority of their land. So we did not actually delay the registrations. Anyone we know who needs his title please
process his application.
C/Lands: Mr Chairman, just
to add on to what the officer says.
Actually, the process on direct land allocation issue the actual land
process which consumes a lot of time because we have to go to a lot of places in
order to achieve the registration process itself so maybe that is where this
kind of delay is experienced by our people and as the tender process the land has
already been subdivided and have the parcel numbers so we would say that… which
the person must have given the …and was given the ….even the parcel registration
process takes years
Chairman: Let’s move onto page 8.
Hon. Fono: Chairman is the land data now being
computerized so that it helps you know exactly which land rentals are
outstanding because once it is properly computerized I believe government can
collect a lot of revenue rather than the old manual system when we look on the ledgers. What is the current situation with the information
system in lands?
PS: Thank you Chairman. As with every other ministerial departmental
things are now become computerized and definitely in Lands and this is why we
have already have this land system information made available if you wish to
view your land lot number, parcel
numbers, titles………
Chairman: When was that program implemented?
PS:
In lands the centre is actually open into……..
Chairman: So since it was implemented until now was
there any improvement on the revenue of the government because we notice that
the land follow up, the land rentals cause a lot of reduction in the revenue
for the government, 25% especially in Kukum land. This system was established in 2003 and now
it is 2005 so was there any improvement in the collection.
PS:
Thank you Mr Chair. Yes I’d like to believe
that there has been some improvement in the collection except not until the one
expect………but still there are a lot but in terms of the general progress certainly
we would like to see that improved.
Waitara: Chairman, can I put on one view here. The system itself cannot do much in terms of collecting
the revenue it is the human being that goes out to collect the revenue so we
have the problem with staffing at the moment.
We do not have revenue collectors with us so we expect the list holders to
come forward and check up their rent dues and then pay up. They had signed a grant instrument which stated
that every Thursday of January each year they should pay up the rent but first
probably they use that as excuse to say,
your door was closed on 1st January that does not mean they have a good excuse. What I’m trying to say here is yes, the
ministry has facilities in place but it is up to the list holders to come
forward to check up and pay up otherwise we can bill them but then it is up to
them to come forward. There is also a
lack of enforcement in the department to enforce whatever bills we should send
to them that amounts to this slow revenue collection.
Chairman: So what is the ministry’s mechanism to improve
the enforcement in the Ministry?
Waitara: Thank you Chair. That is where we have a proposed or put in new
staff establishment posts and again it is a long story with Public Service over
the last years although Public Service refers that recruitment back to the
Ministry again there is a slow progress in employment of new staff.
PS:
Mr Chairman in terms of the revenue collection
I think the MOF will equally share part of collecting revenue and as I
understood within our Ministry there has been a shortage of staff within the
accounts usually in terms of collecting of revenue. Now I have been to an understanding that
Finance has a major division and this is possible to collecting revenue throughout
the ministries and departments which is done on almost a daily bases in case of
Lands that has not been for the last in fact since January. We are fortunate that we have recently been
able to employ a cashier who now does the job of carrying money from Ministry
of Lands down to Treasury in the MOF in that sense it has …... I think other
ministries or relevant departments need to do their part as well.
Chairman: I think it is clear enough. Page 9 recommendations 24, 25, 26, 27, 28,
29. Any comment?
Hon. Fono: Recommendation 27 Chair we are now expecting
this amendment to the Lands and Titles Act.
US:
Thank you Chair, we have actually done some exercise on revising some of
the provisions of the Act we did not
have much support probably on certain quarters of the private sector we were
trying to address this issue of revising the land rentals from 20 to 7 years. Now that has taken some negative responses. But then we will leave that up to the right people
to look into it. We have actually given it to the legal draftsman we shall sort
of wait for their response to come back to us before we can actually put it up
to the responsible authorities and probably put in Parliament so, Yes, we have
done trying to put some actions and revising some of the provisions of the Act. But we also need some political will to actually
drive this through.
Hon. Koli:
Chairman, 31st May about while here to …..Kukum land areas
without that. That indicated you comply
with that updated recommendation 24?
US:
Yes, what happens is that we try to engage the Valuer
General which is a new person from the …we will try to engage him to just look
through other allocations in Kukum to see where people have actually never paid
their rents that supposed to be paying so we would turn to that just to
concentrate on Kukum Lands but also we are trying to address others too like
Honiara itself too and some other fixed term owners that never came forward for
the last couple of years. We have
records with those people too but yes we want to try to adjust Kukum first so we
have given him the task and he should report back to us before 31st
May.
Chairman: So what will happen if they fail to pay their
arrears? Did you have some cases where
they failed to pay their arrears?
C/Lands: Yes I think I stay long enough in the
ministry to actually know there were certain instances in 1980s and early
1990’s where we actually forfeited the fixed term now what we try to relate to
you is the enforcement part of it because I think we sort of lack on that
particular area to enforce those forfeiture and to take it back if fixed owners
did not comply to what they supposed to be doing and one is land
rent we will certainly talk with the landowners themselves too and they need to
come to see us and explain why they did not pay for the last six years. We have
incidences where we have taken back when someone did not pay for ten years but
that was in early ‘80’s and ‘90’s. But then
again the enforcement part is still weak.
Chairman: Page 10.
Recommendation 30, 31, 32, 33, and 34. PS and officials
recommendation 30. Actions taken is referred to this. Maybe can you just inform the committee about
this case? Has the Ministry put in place
a mechanism to avoid repeating the same case happening?
PS:
Thank you. We are referring to the Police I think actions we have taken
it involves very senior officers. We would rather hand it over to the Police…... but they would actually lay charges against
them………..
Chairman: So what are the mechanisms put in place for
the ministry to avoid happening this again.
PS:
Well, I think in this case it is the cashier who is allowed to carry
money from the Ministry of Lands to Treasury.
Chairman: Do you think or the assurance in putting the
new Cashier will solve the problem. What
are the mechanisms put in place?
PS:
The Chief Accountant is the main supervisor within the accounts to
supervise the cashier on daily bases. I
think this is why things are being allowed to be in process.
Hon. Fono: Chairman this is for the recorded cash
entries but the ones that are not recorded they just go to yellow envelop is hard
to record. This is no wonder certain developers
have a lot of properties. Just one
developer you will see a lot of houses here and there. There is something must be going on not on
the current staffing but all along lands is popular for that and even an
officer who has buses or taxes better re-look at how they take those vehicles
because for simple public servants that cant afford for a cost of living certainly
there must be something going on so as a deterring factor cases that involves officers
must be reported to Police.
C/Lands: Chairman, just to say something about this
one in order to get us control this kind of practice we do come up with the standard
of procedures that should help us this kind of bid if anything happens we should
be able to try to settle within ourselves.
Chairman: Since the official mentioned the procedures.
Can the committee have a copy of the procedures?
C/lands: Chairman, we will provide you.
Chairman: Back to recommendation 30. The second bulletin, ticketing
system. Can you explain what this
ticketing system?
Chairman: Let’s move onto Page 11, recommendations 34,
36 and 37.
Hon. Fono: Mr Chairman, are all
lands at Kukum been allocated already and my second question is whose
responsibility is to relocate those residences there, government or their own companies
that they work on.
PS:
Thank you Chair. The relocation of the original occupants is another
issue itself. There was a program in
place something that goes around and we have a lot discussed with former
occupants who have not been allocated. The officers would be able to assist
there and the DPP probably would be in a position to in terms of the relocation.
Hon. Fono: Chairman, I raise that because you tend to
see that some of them have moved towards the seaside which is very risky. Not only risky to themselves but it does not
look proper in the frontage of our city.
Waitara: Mr Chairman, most
of the residents there all government quarters Labour
lines the fact the government open up that place for another development gives
burden too for government to move out
its workers but the ministry has put in place their movement and ministry sort
of use that problem as a chance they can build their own homes/houses to
accommodate government officers at the same time perform their activities
serving the government. So far the ministry has prepared sites for them but
then it comes back to preference of location where they want to live again some
prefer to live to other locations the ministry has accepted and then prepare
sites for them. The others just go where they want to go although the ministry
has already prepared a place for them again it comes back again to site
development fund in terms of putting in place the basic infrastructure. One thing is to get the land prepared in
terms of survey and registration the other thing is putting basic services where
human being needs survival so that again needs money to come back whatever limited
fund the ministry has that is all we can work on.
Hon. Fono: Yes, my first question was have all the land,
commercial sites in Kukum being allocated or not? So all residential areas
from Hot Bread comes to Police Station.
Are these being allocated?
PS: I’ll ask the Commissioner to answer that.
C/Lands: Hot Bread to Police Station is under Honiara
Town Council. The only area where the
new structure is being built is where the stores are and comes to the Police
station is the Commissioner of Lands holds.
Chairman: So that includes Kukum market.
PS: Kukum
market is under Council…………In terms of….so it is 12 years.
Hon. Fono: It is done during the ethnic tension years so we accept it but we’ve got to
put in place proper roles and regulations so that we do not repeat that again.
Chairman: Move on to page 12, which is a last
page. Any comment?
Hon. Fono: Which one in Burns Creek is
not yet subdivided? Recommendation
37.
Waitara: Thank you Chairman. I think I will answer that on behalf of the
Commissioner. This parcel in Burns Creek
is just behind KGVI Market and ROC farm there is a drain that goes down….
Hon. Koli: Chairman, as stated earlier the market area is
under Honiara City Council you look after certain areas as mentioned today but looking
particularly at the Henderson area G-Province and the Ministry in terms of land
demarcation wise and all. Which areas are owned by
PS: Henderson and Lunga areas is it?
Commissioner would be able to clarify.
C/Lands: Chairman, before any other
officers give comments I just want to make comparison to Kukum first. Kukum ……the title is actually owned by the
Honiara City Council you know that the administrative title the actual title is
with them so Commissioner of Lands has no authority to do whatever. In regards to Henderson area there are quite
a number of stakeholders that own this area and Henderson so this area where G-Province
might own, own here is different administrative in terms of own Town Planning
so even though the Commissioner of Lands own in Henderson area we would always refers
to Guadalcanal Province Town & Country Planning office to also give their
recommendations as to what sort of development should come up inside with so it
is quite a different way you look at it…development aspect of it….
Hon. Koli: Because up there at there at
PS: This
is regarding their demands for development with some other issues.
Waitara:
Thank you Chairman. I just want to put one comment and this will
clarify on the understanding of the jurisdiction from each authority of the Honiara
City Council,
Out
side the town boundary the Land and Perpetual Title is held by the Commissioner
but when a Fixed-Term is given to the estate holder and the estate holder has
the final say for the next how many years he own the entitles on and that is
why CEMA comes in to claim RIPEL and the Commissioner only handles those titles
that are still within the Commissioner of Lands office.
In terms of planning, whole of Guadalcanal
Province is declared under a Town & Country Planning Act Planning Area
which means the ministry or G-Province for that matter can do any planning to
any area within Guadalcanal Province but when it comes to control what sort of
development there are only various sections that control areas where
Guadalcanal authorities, government authorities can control whatever
development that goes in there. Although
ownership wise people have the customary land ownership the development part
can come back to the administration side, the local government so those are the
hierarchy we sort of confuse who controls what and what places to go to and having
look at those we tend to think that Solomon Islands we sort of over legislate
ourselves so we confuse ourselves too of what is going on. Thank you.
Chairman: This is very strange arrangement that
somebody owns the land and somebody controls the development. It can be very stressful. Do you have any policy in future somebody
that controls the land has some say over the land?
Waitara: Yes, that is possible through the regulations
given back some powers in certain Acts go back to various entities of bodies in
terms that is why all provinces would like to say tell me your economy to do my
business rather than the national government falling onto some authorities or
decisions. Again it needs overhaul through legal …..
Hon. Fono: Mr Chairman,
generally the audit into Kukum land finds a lot of discrepancies in which even
government lose a lot of revenue that is due in terms of the premium of the
land stamp duties and all these. Now in
the event that titles are not yet given to developers that were allocated land
and if these discrepancies are found can the government impose the rightful
amount of funds that is due to the government for those lands so that they are
paid the proper value of the land?
US:
Thank you Chair, I think that issue we will try to adjust some policy issue,
land allocation policy where issues of land rent and premium that comes on site.
On the issue of premium whether we should capitalize that rent and come up with
premium or we actually value straight the site and give straight the value of
the site. They will come on the policy
which one is good for the you know maybe Solomon Islanders as well too so we
must consider some of these issues as well.
We will try and address that through the Land Allocation Policy. We can do that and that is what I want to
mention to you.
Chairman: That concludes the recommendations and now
any general comments from the committee or any mishaps from the previous
recommendations.
PS and Officials
was there any stamp duty exemption provided since January 2006?
Pelo: That
can only be found out in the Commissioner of Income Tax Office.
Hon. Fono: Inland
Revenue.
Chairman: Is there any working collaboration between
your office and Inland Revenue?
C/Lands: The Registrar General does achieve collecting
duties the document that comes into the Registry that should be stamped which to
check against the appropriate ………
PS: ….inaudible…..
Chairman:
If anyone would like to see the list? Any final comment?
PS:
…inaudible…..
Chairman: Thank you.
Any final comment?
Bill:
If I could just make a brief comment I would just like to reiterate that
this report did find many significant findings in relation to the Kukum area land
case. That was only one many, many other cases
intended to be part if you look back to these records to make sure the same
message from this grouping explode elsewhere. It is good to hear today that
there are something missing that we are going to pursue and is great to get this
document now it gives us a bit of a snap short because a year ago since some of
those issues raised carry forward I think this committee needs to get that
quarterly report to keep it up to date because it is such a commitment from the
ministry to make sure to keep up to date with these recommendations because
many of them is going to happen the next month or two it is good to know within
three months time. The Committee is also
asked to follow up audit in due cause any policy without to do that until you
know exactly where you are as soon as possible. It is great to see the Ministry has come up
with these….
Chairman: Yes, if there is nothing more then on behalf
of the committee and officials of committee I wish to thank the hard working PS
in the Ministry of Lands and your officials for coming in front of the
committee presenting your case and especially thank you too for coming up with
your Action Plan which other Ministries have not done so. So we thank you especially for this Action
Plan we can cross check how much have we done which part has not yet completed
and so forth.
Thank
you once again PS and officials. That
concludes today’s session and will resume 9am tomorrow. So
before we call it a day may I ask the MP for
Hon. Koli: Said a Closing Prayer.
……..The End…….